A Chat with Janice Bardsley of the University of North Carolina

Introduction

Jan Bardsley (Ph.D., UCLA,1989) is Professor Emerita in the Department of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. A scholar of Japanese women’s studies, she investigates how women’s lives have been imagined, debated, legally defined, and publicly displayed in modern and contemporary Japan. Her books include Maiko Masquerade: Crafting Geisha Girlhood in Japan (University of California Press, 2021), Women and Democracy in Cold War Japan (SOAS Studies in Modern and Contemporary Japan, Bloomsbury, 2014), and The Bluestockings of Japan: New Women Fiction and Essays from Seitō, 1911-1916 (the University of Michigan, Center for Japanese Studies, 2007), which won the 2011 Hiratsuka Raichō Award, Japan Women’s University. You can follow her blog about Japan at https://janbardsley.web.unc.edu/.

Maiko Masquerade explores Japanese representations of the maiko, or apprentice geisha, in films, manga, and other popular media as an icon of exemplary girlhood. Jan Bardsley traces how the maiko, long stigmatized as a victim of sexual exploitation, emerged in the 2000s as the chaste keeper of Kyoto’s classical artistic traditions. Insider accounts by maiko and geisha, their leaders and fans, show pride in the training, challenges, and rewards maiko faces. No longer viewed as a toy for men’s amusement, she serves as a catalyst for women’s consumer fun. This change inspires serious stories, and comic visions alike as ordinary girls–and even one boy–strive to embody the maiko ideal. This presentation traces the sense of masquerade threading through all these narratives, highlighting the questions raised about personal choice, gender performance, and the meanings of girlhood in 21st-century Japan.

Video Interview

Transcript of The Video

Ankita: Hello, everyone. Today we are here with Janice Bardsley, a professor from the University of North Carolina, to discuss a few words of wisdom with us. Hi Jan!

Jan: How are you doing?

Ankita: I’m doing good. Thank you for sparing some time for an interview with EJable.com.

Jan: Happy to do this.

Ankita: Thank you so much. So, Jan, since so we want to know more about you will start with a small introduction about yourself and your current engagement.

Jan: OH, I’d be happy to tell you about what I’m doing now. I live in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. I’m retired from the Asian Studies Department of the University of North Carolina. It’s now actually the Department of Asian and Middle Eastern studies, so a very broad and active department.

My interest has long been in Japanese literature, but also in Japanese performance. And particularly in gender in Japan. So, some of my favorite classes at UNC Chapel Hill were introduction to Japanese theater and Japanese literature. But also, of course, I used to teach called chasing Madame Butterfly, where we looked at all the stories of Madame Butterfly from the very early Pierre Lottie to Miss Saigon. And I also taught a course called geisha in historical fiction and fantasy, where we looked at the history of geisha in Japan, which is over 200 years, and then also ideas of quote geisha girls abroad. And that was one of my most interesting classes.

Ankita: Well, that’s wonderful to know. So, since you are so attracted to Japan, what was your first encounter with Japan, and how did you feel about that?

Jan: Great question. I went to Japan as a college student. I was so fascinated by what I saw about Japanese art in movies and in art pieces that some of my family members had, but that shows how little I knew about what was really going on in Japan. So when I first went to Japan, I also knew no Japanese and had no real understanding of everyday Japan at all. So even arriving at Haneda Airport was quite a surprise. And It was just my first time out of the country, I was only 20 years old, and you just hear a different language all around you for the first time. So. So that was quite an interesting beginning. And then, I went with my student group to Ochanomizu in Tokyo. And we stayed in a ryokan. You know the Japanese style in, and so with my literally my first experience with tatami mats eating Japanese food and changing your shoes. I knew to take off my shoes, of course, before going into a Japanese house. But I had no idea there were different shoes. And at the time you changed your shoes to go into the bathroom and to go into the kitchen, this was really new to me.

And I remember shaking everybody by walking out of the restroom into the top of the Tatami Mat with the same shoes on. And people were all shocked, and I thought, what do you mean? That was the beginning of learning a lot of new things.

Ankita: Oh yes, they are very perfect with cleanliness.

Jan: Yeah, yes. And different. You know, it. It just shows you when you go to a different country, things that you assume everybody does in the same way can be different in that country. You know, it’s in little things in daily life, even how you fold things or shoes in Japan and how you hold utensils. Like I began to notice how women were holding their teacups, for example, like this, and I had never seen that before, so you’d be.

And what’s interesting, I think, when you’re first in another country for a long time, and I was there first for about 14 months, is the things you absorb that you’re unaware of. You know that. Then you notice when you go back to your home country, and you realize there are certain things you just picked up, and that is one of those.

Ankita: That’s what is interesting to know.

Nice. So, while you were living here, you must have gotten some inspiration for writing about Japan and Japanese women. So. what was your inspiration?

Jan: I wonder, when I was in Japan first, I was an exchange student, so I took your basic classes in Japanese history and particularly literature, and I had a lot of time. So I read many Japanese novels in English translation because I was still like a 101 learner. And I just became so fascinated with Japanese literature from, you know, the pillow book causation of going up to Soseki and more contemporary writers. At the time, Mishima and Kenzaburo OE were fairly new, right, and not new writers, but they were kind of current on the scene, which has always stayed with me and my interest in Japanese literature. And when I was back in Los Angeles, I did various jobs with Japanese companies I knew I would be interested in Japan after I graduated from college, but I didn’t know exactly what I would do. So, I and I went back to Japan and taught English for a couple of years at Berlitz. That was before the jet program, and that gave me a longer opportunity to live in Japan and work in Japan. When I returned to Los Angeles, I worked for Fuji Bank for six months. I worked with a travel program for six months. I worked with Yomiuri Shimbun for six months. So, I tried various jobs to see what fit me.

Then finally, I decided, well, if I’m going to be active with Japan for a career, I really need to know Japanese better and more about Japan. So then, I enrolled at UCLA and got into the MBA program. And then I was just so fascinated by Japanese literature and culture. And about the time I finished my MA in the early 80s, I decided to go to the Ph.D. program and really make a career in it.

And at the time, I had been studying so much about Japan, but so much of the emphasis by the late 70s and 80s was on Japanese men, and it was hard to learn about Japanese women’s history in English. So, I decided to take up the story of the bluestockings, as they’re called in English or Saito. And their leader hit the Saito. The hardest part about that was that everything was in Japanese.

The Japanese were Meiji-era Japanese, so it was pretty difficult to read, and I still, I think, was still about a third- or fourth-year student in Japanese when I started all of this. So, it was quite a long process. But the motivation was to learn more about Japanese women’s history, to learn more about Japanese feminism, Japanese ideas of women’s rights, and gender. And I think I spent about five years on my dissertation.

And then, after that, it was a long process to do the book, which is called the Bluestockings of Japan and came out in 2007 because I translated a lot of women’s essays and short stories, and I found out more and more about their lives. And what I really wanted to do with that book is to try to give a piece of Japanese women’s history to other English speakers.

Who would then learn about the variety of women that there were and the different ideas they had, and what that meant to be a woman who was newly educated and living in Tokyo and wanted to be a writer in the 1910s? So it was quite an adventure.

Ankita: Yes, that’s amazing. That’s really good to know. Uh, but you wrote your book in 2007, right? So, have you been to Japan in recent times?

Jan: Oh yes, it wasn’t before 2007.

Since I was a professor, I have taken students to Japan several times. Sometimes they stayed for a semester with students, and sometimes those were very short trips, but I’d say from around 2002, I went to Japan every year in the summertime to study abroad and or for research or conference or something like that, then.

In 2018-19 I lived in Tokyo for one year and was a visiting professor at Ochanomizu University in Tokyo. And that was a really wonderful year. I got to teach Japanese students there, and we also talked about chasing Madame Butterfly, and it was so interesting to get Japanese students’ perspectives on that issue. And I also taught a class on new women and modern girls and organized some symposia.

And then, while I was there, I spent most of my time researching my most recent book, Maiko Masquerade – Crafting Geisha Girl Food in Japan. And this book is about popular culture and the idea of Maiko, who’s The Apprentice, a teenager in Kyoto. Where’s the very unusual costume? Houses become a figure of national interest through light fiction, artwork, and, most recently, Manga, So there’s that. A manga about Maiko. So that’s also -NHK is made into an anime, and this month it’s going to be on Netflix as a live-action drama. So, I became so fascinated with the idea of why this apprentice geisha might go Fascinate people so much, especially because there are not many. Actual might go only about 60, and even with GEICO, as they’re known in Kyoto geisha, there are fewer than 200.

So, I was very interested in looking at how Japanese literature and film, manga, and guides to Kyoto represented this Maiko as a kind of ideal Japanese girl. So that’s what that book is about.

Ankita: So, I was about to ask you about your experience while you were writing the book from your experience of Japan in recent times, but you answered it all for me already 😊

Jan: Oh, I can tell you more

Ankita: Yes, please go ahead.

Jan: Yeah, because usually, since I teach and live in the United States, I would go to Japan most often in the summer and collect Japanese materials and talk with people related to whatever I was studying. And then I’d come back to the US and write about it. But in 2018-19, when I was a visiting scholar at Ochanomizu University, I could read and watch movies and so forth and be in Japan. And I was in a wonderful office Institute for Gender Studies there. So, I could always go talk with people, you know, at lunch, who have read this manga, and I’m not sure I get this joke.

And then my Japanese colleagues would be talking about it, and they could give a very different view because, of course, knowing Japanese and Japanese culture better and could tell me where the jokes were, so that was really fun. And then also it enabled me to meet people that were related to producing these ideas of Maiko. So, I met different authors.

And also, I went and met a famous geisha or two in Kyoto. Although my books are mainly about representation, it was important to get ideas from people actually in that community. So I was able to do that. So actually, working and living in Japan while I was writing was very, very helpful, I must say.

Ankita: That’s quite interesting to know. So, since you have always visited Japan as a foreigner and someone from the US as a professor, you would have some tips for non-Japanese or foreigners to be involved in the local culture in Japan, so what tips can you give them?

Jan: Well, I think it really makes a difference, too, because even if you’re in Japan for just a year or semester and you’re a student, there are ways that you can feel more at home in your Japanese community. Let’s say I was teaching in Hakone, Japan, that’s in the western part of Japan. I had some free time, so I did some things as I joined their lifelong communities Lifelong Learning Center. I noticed that there was a group that studied Japanese women’s history. So, I asked to join the group, and it was just four women they were very surprised that I wanted to join, but it was great practice for my Japanese too, and also a way to meet people with something that wasn’t specifically organized as an international exchange.

And we became good friends, and I did many different things in the community. Just you know, going to people’s homes for lunch or having interesting conversations in the park because I had met these four people, things moved from there. But I also noticed, and maybe Hakone was especially good about this, that they would have day-long activities where anyone in the community could join. It was particularly promoted to international People living there. So, for example, one day, I did this. We met at City Hall, got on the bus, drove to a variety of locations that are both Japanese and people from different countries there, and did activities together. I remember we made soba together in some mountain place, and it was just an overall way to, you know, get to know other people in your community, to know what your community does. I also had the advantage that I was taking students to various places in Japan when I was there. So, in that case, we would do things in advance to prepare for field trips and so forth, and we would need people, and that’s maybe not something as easily done by individuals visiting Japan. Still, another very common way, and I think you see this in books about “Foreigners living in Japan,” is going to the finding the place You feel comfortable, like the coffee shop you like or the little store, the little grocery store that even if it’s a convenience store that you always buy your morning, you know coffee or something like that and by or the dry cleaner, even. I think the last time I was in Japan, I had a very, you know, friendly feeling. I wouldn’t say we were deep friends or anything. Still, we got to know each other very comfortably by going to the same dry cleaner, the same family restaurant, the same small little restaurant, and even at the train station, kind of asking questions, just saying ‘Hello’ when you see the same people, and that makes you feel much more part of the community. I mean, as somebody who’s still there temporarily, I imagine that people living more permanently could use these things, but then they would want to deepen their relationships.

Another thing that I often recommend to people that are going to live in Japan and want to become involved outside of their work in their local community. So, What I recommend is to follow your hobbies. So, if you’re already a person who likes to hike or rock climb, or you have cooking skills, or you’d like to participate in Japanese traditional arts, you can find a way into those types of activities without too much difficulty. And because they’re visual, such as flower arranging, for example, or cooking, you don’t need to know a lot of Japanese. And if you’re doing it by following your hobbies, then you already have a lot to bring to the group. You won’t be so dependent on language skills to figure out what you need to do, but along the way, of course, you’ll learn Japanese and meet many different people. I think one thing about being involved in the local community in Japan doesn’t mean you’re limited to only people who are Japanese. There are plenty of people who live in Japan who weren’t born in Japan who are part of their communities, and this can be another way for you to get involved.

And you can look for volunteer activities. You’ll see signs in various community centers if you visit your local station for things you could do to join. It doesn’t mean that you have to join forever, absolutely. Just go once and try it. The other thing I would look for in Japan, which I used to see in the railway stations, is lots of signs for lectures, art exhibits, or movies.

Um, it doesn’t mean that you have to, Let’s say it’s in Japanese, it doesn’t mean you have to understand all the Japanese to enjoy going, especially if it’s an introduction to an art exhibit. And then you can look around, see the art, and learn a little more. And certainly, people are likely to come up to you and ask you why you’re there if you’re interested. And you can also engage with other people too. So, there are lots of different ways. You just have to kind of look for an opening. and take advantage, and some will prove to be very interesting to you. It might lead to more friendships than others. Are just a nice Sunday afternoon.

Ankita: Ah! All that is so good to know, Jan. I’m glad to have been a part of this interview. I’m sure our viewers will have a lot to pick up from this conversation and the experience shared by you. And thank you again on behalf of EJable.com for this wonderful insight.

Jan: Thank you so much. Thank you. Ankita really enjoyed being here. And I’m looking forward to going back to Japan and myself, trying new experiences, doing more things, and going to more places in Japan because I tend to go from Tokyo towards Kyoto and Osaka and back. Still, there’s certainly a lot more Japan to see.

Thank you very much!

Ankita: Thank you, Jan!