Interview with Mesut Durukal of Indeed, Japan

This is the 16th interview in the “Interviews with Foreign Information Technology Engineers in Japan” series. “ EJable.com’s Ryoko Nagai talks to Mesut Durukal of Indeed.com, Japan.

Video Interview with Mesut

Transcript of Mesut’s Interview

Ryoko: Hi, Mesut; thank you for your time today and joining us at EJable.

I’m interested in hearing your story about how you came all the way from Turkey to Japan. So, if you could begin with your introduction, it would be nice to hear.

Mesut: Yes, sure. Hello, and thank you for inviting me 😊.

It’s really interesting to talk about my story and everything going on in Japan. My name is Mesut. As you mentioned, I’m originally from Turkey and moved to Japan around three and a half years ago.

So, yeah, I have been living and working in Japan for about three and a half years.

Ryoko: OK, amazing. And if I may share, you currently work at Indeed.com as a QA engineer!

Mesut: Yes, correct.

Ryoko: Great. If I may ask, what was your first encounter with Japan, or why did you choose to move to Japan?

Mesut: My first encounter was an offer from a Japanese company. Before that, I had no idea about moving to Japan.

In fact, I didn’t have any special interest because sometimes I meet with some people who moved to Japan because they have some special interest in things like Japanese anime, manga, Japanese culture, Japanese food, or something related to Japan 😊. However, that was not the case for me.

Ryoko: OK.

Mesut: I didn’t have any intention or idea about moving to Japan, but I got an offer from a Japanese company. At first, I was a bit surprised, as I had not planned or thought about moving to Japan at all. And when I got an offer, I was surprised because it is too far away from my country.

People do move to different countries, especially in the IT industry in my country. However, they generally move to European countries, like Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, etc.

I was also thinking about moving for work to another such country. Actually, I was talking to some European companies, like one from the Netherlands and another, I guess, a Swiss company.

Ryoko: Hmm.

Mesut: But then I got the offer from this Japanese company. That time, I was a bit surprised, wondering whether it was possible or not 😊. And then I proceeded with it, and it happened.

Ryoko: How come you got an offer from a Japanese company? Did you apply for it, or didn’t you?

Mesut: No, they approached me.

Ryoko: Oh, wow 😊.

Mesut: Yeah, I was the QA team lead in my previous company back in Turkey, and they were searching for a lead person who could build some processes in their company. So, they approached me.

It was a product company—actually, a robotics company—so the product was very interesting for me. And then, Japan! This was a new challenge for me. It is totally new. I didn’t know much about the country or the people, but I just tried to give it a try, so I thought, even if anything went wrong, what would I lose? So, I just gave it a try.

Ryoko: That’s true. OK. Then, if it was three and a half years back, maybe that was around when COVID started.

Mesut: Yes. Exactly.

Ryoko: Yes. However, you had no idea about Japan. How was your first experience when you came to Japan, to a very unknown country?

Mesut: In general, I’m a person who can adapt to different environments or situations. So I didn’t feel too much struggle.

And yeah, at first, as I said, I just wanted to give it a try. However, I’m super happy to have made this decision because I really like living in Japan. And I really, really like Japanese people and Japanese society.

It was COVID-19 when I was supposed to move to Japan, so I had to wait a little bit to come because the borders were closed.

Ryoko: Right.

Mesut: I had started talking with the company. It was my previous company and not Indeed, Japan, when I first moved here. It was a Japanese robotics company. After working for them for about one year, I switched to Indeed.

Ryoko: OK.

Mesut: At that time, I had to go to the office, and my house is not in downtown Tokyo but a little bit far away. So going to the office was not that easy. Of course, now, at Indeed, Japan, I am able to work from anywhere inside Japan.

Ryoko: Oh, nice.

Mesut: Yeah. It’s fully remote.

Ryoko: OK.

Mesut: But if I step back a bit before moving to Japan, I had agreed with the company on all the terms, so it was certain I would come here. After that, I had to get a document called the Certificate of Eligibility (COE) for my visa. However, I could not even apply for the COE because the embassy did not accept the application because of COVID-19.

Ryoko: Right.

Mesut: So, for that document, I had to wait around three months, and after that, it was open. I could get my document, and I could enter Japan and go to the office. But sorry, at first, it was two weeks of quarantine time.

Ryoko: OK. All right. Yes, we had to quarantine.

Mesut: Yes, I could not immediately go to the office. I had to wait for two weeks at my small house in Tokyo, and then finally, I could go to the office, meet everyone, and start working. And after about 2-3 months, there was another lockdown.

I came around November and February or March, and there was another lockdown. So we worked from home, and then again, it all opened. So it was a little bit of a complicated situation.

Ryoko: OK. Yes. I see. You’ve been at the office for almost a year and here for a total of three and a half years, so have you learned some Japanese?

Mesut: Not much. I’m still studying. I even started learning before coming here. I took some JLPT tests. I passed 2 levels, and I’m studying. I could converse a little, but I am not fluent.

Ryoko: OK. And do you think for those who are coming to Japan, looking to work at these big IT companies, it is a necessity?

Mesut: I wouldn’t say in terms of the company because I don’t need Japanese at all. My working language is 100% English.

Ryoko: OK.

Mesut: Again, it depends. Some companies ask for Japanese skills, but even though it is not required for the work, I would say to adapt to society and make friends. I think it’s a huge plus to speak Japanese.

Ryoko: Hmm. OK. I see. And what do you like about your current position working at Indeed.com?

Mesut: Yeah, at Indeed, we have different web applications. You might know that Indeed is a job-seeking platform; people can search for jobs and apply for them. Yeah. So, what I like about Indeed is that we are serving people. We are trying to help people. Even our motto is “We help people get jobs.”

So, we are developing some services to improve this experience, like how we can make things easier for job seekers to find jobs more easily on this. So, we are developing services to help people; that’s one of the things that I like the most.

Ryoko: OK. You told me that you can work fully remotely, but maybe in terms of team members, what is the working environment like? Is it very international?

Mesut: Yes. It is very international.

We have two offices. I mean, we had three, but after COVID, they closed one of them. Now, we have two offices in Tokyo. One is in Tamachi, and the other is in Roppongi. So, I can go to the office anytime I want, but it is not mandatory. I generally work from home, but sometimes, we have games, football games, or other social activities for team building.

So, sometimes, I go to the office to meet with my colleagues and friends at the company. And you asked about the environment. The environment is very diverse. It’s international. There are people from all over the world.

Ryoko: OK. Was there anything that you had to adapt to in terms of project execution or how you work compared to when you worked in Turkey?

Mesut: Actually, even when I was in Turkey, I was working for a German company, Siemens. It’s a good company, a well-known company, and again, it was international.

I worked for their Istanbul office, but of course, we also worked with their German office.

We had regular daily meetings and communicated in English. I was able to work with people from different cultures and countries because, though we were working with the German office, that was not the only one. We also had offices in India, China, Hungary, and a lot of other countries, so I was also used to that.

Ryoko: Ok.

Mesut: But even if that was the situation, eventually, I was in Turkey, in my own country. Therefore, most of my friends were Turkish.

Ryoko: Yes, yes. Yeah.

Mesut: So in, in that regard, even though you are used to working in an international environment, where you live is important, I guess.

I feel that Japanese and Turkish cultures are similar. Japanese culture is different from Western cultures, like American or European, but Turkish culture is in the middle; it is like the middle of European and Asian cultures. So, I can find some similarities between Turkish and Japanese, but there are still differences, especially in terms of human relationships.

Ryoko: OK. Yeah.

Mesut: In Turkey, there are strong friendships and family bonds, which are always an advantage, though sometimes a disadvantage, too, because when friendships or relationships are too close, they are sometimes difficult to manage at the workplace.

Ryoko: Uh-huh. Yes. Mm-hmm. Oh yes, I can imagine.

Mesut: Yes, of course. Definitely, personal relationships have certain advantages. So yeah, in that regard, of course, I had to accept the culture and the situation here. But again, because of my personality, I did not have much struggle. I just adapted to this environment.

Ryoko: Great. Nice. Then, do you have any tips or advice that you could give to those who are taking interviews as QA engineers, maybe at Indeed.com?

Mesut: Oh, yeah. I mean, maybe I can answer not only in terms of Indeed but in general. It depends on the company. Indeed.com has a very specific interview pattern; they have, I guess, six or seven rounds of interviews, in general.

Ryoko: Oh, wow.

Mesut: Yeah, but it doesn’t mean that it is too tough. It is a comprehensive interview. All of these different rounds have different perspectives. One is for measuring the candidates’ communication skills, the other is for coding and implementation skills, and the other is for brainstorming for working on a case study, so it has a very comprehensive interview process. So, different companies have different interview patterns or approaches. But in general, what I can advise is first of all, check the company where you are interviewing.

Every company has a different approach, and having some knowledge about the company in advance will give you a lot of advantages. You will be a little bit familiar with the processes. Of course, it is not possible to know 100% before you start.

However, they should check their website, do some investigation, check their YouTube channel if they have one, check if they have YouTube channels, see the videos, and check any interviews of their managers, etc. Ttis kind of investigation would help a lot to give you some familiarity with the company.

Ryoko: OK. OK, I see. I have had interviews with many software engineers, but I haven’t had the chance to have many interviews with QA engineers. Do you think that the job market of QA engineers in Japan is growing? Do you think that companies are looking for more and more QA engineers?

Mesut: Yes, definitely. Actually, it depends on the time and the region because if you look at the QA growth graph, I am talking about 10 or 20 years back when most companies did not have proper QA teams and processes. At that time, companies had development teams, but they did not really have any separate QA teams and processes. Then, companies realized that they needed proper testing processes to ensure the quality of the products.

Ryoko: Yeah.

Mesut: So, they started building QA teams for manual testing, but nowadays, we are also doing automated testing. Therefore, testers also need some coding skills to not just test the product manually but also code for test automation.

Ryoko: Yeah.

Mesut: And in the future, maybe we will work even more closely with the development teams because nowadays, everyone is talking about using machine learning and “Shift Left”, which means tight integration with the development teams by moving testing left or earlier in the project timelines.

And maybe in the future, not in the short term, but in the long term, the testing teams might disappear again because the testing will be done inside the development teams.

Ryoko: Ah, yes, it will be a combined kind of process.

Mesut: Yes, but this doesn’t mean that testing will disappear. Only the testing teams as separate teams may disappear, so the testing activities will be done inside the development teams.

Ryoko: Ok.

Mesut: I would say testing will always be there, so there’s more risk. I would say Japan is not the locomotive country that is going ahead of the rest of the world. So, I would say Japan is still transitioning from manual testing to testing automation.

Ryoko: Yeah. OK, I see.

Mesut: There is a huge need for automation testers nowadays. If testers improve their coding skills, they will easily find jobs or create positions for themselves in Japan.

Ryoko: OK, that’s nice. I’m sure the viewers of this interview find this very comforting.

Then, moving on to the social aspect of living in Japan, what are the things that you like about Japanese culture ever since you’ve been here?

Mesut: First of all, I find it super peaceful. I don’t feel that there are any safety issues in Japan. I can easily go anywhere, anytime, not only myself but the family and the kids. It’s a very safe country. It is peaceful. This is one of the first things that I like the most.

Other than that, the people are very respectful, very kind, and willing to help.

For example, whenever I ask something to people, I sometimes ask how I can go somewhere, especially inside the station, for example. Many stations are really very huge and it is not easy to find the correct place.

So, they don’t only describe, but sometimes they accompany me to the correct place until the very end. So I feel a little bit ashamed that you didn’t have to come with me; you could just let me know. But they really do because sometimes they don’t speak English. And since I cannot speak Japanese fluently, sometimes we cannot communicate properly. So come with me to take me there.

Even though they cannot speak English, they try to help. They are very helpful. They are respectful and kind. People’s kindness, peaceful and safe environment are the things that I like most.

Ryoko: OK, amazing.

And so, I guess because you’ve been working at a kind of international company, you don’t really necessarily face this stereotypical Japanese working culture.

Mesut: Yeah, I hear some stories from other people, not from my company, but from some people, friends, and other people I know.

Ryoko: Yeah.

Mesut: Yeah, I hear some stories about the hierarchies and traditional approaches.

Ryoko: OK. But, uh, in your company, you don’t really have that?

Mesut: No, Indeed is originally an American company with headquarters in Austin.

Ryoko: Yeah, of course. Yes.

Mesut: Now we have a branch in Japan, but it’s originally an American company. So, all the workflows are still not traditional Japanese.

Ryoko: OK. Yeah, that’s good. How do you like Tokyo’s busyness? Is it something you enjoy?

Mesut: Again, I don’t live in the downtown Tokyo. Maybe This is why I moved from there, because at first I was living there. I don’t like too busy and crowded places.

Ryoko: Hmm.

Mesut: But again, I lived in Istanbul, which is the biggest city in Istanbul. The population is around 20 million. I would say it’s quite similar to Tokyo.

Ryoko: OK.

Mesut: However, Tokyo is much more organized. Even in the stations, you know, there are people going upstairs and downstairs. So even if no one is on the other side, they still keep their correct track 😊.

Ryoko: Yeah 😊.

Mesut: But in Istambul, you don’t see that; there is chaos everywhere. So, though, in general, I don’t like crowds, but I don’t complain too much, even if it’s crowded. Everything is organized, and people respect each other, so that’s OK.

But, now I’m living somewhere in Yokohama, not in the port area, but if you know, it’s close to Aobadai.

Ryoko: Oh, nice, yeah. Yes.

Mesut: It’s a good neighborhood area. We don’t have too many high-rise apartment buildings. So yeah, it’s a cool area 😊.

Ryoko: That’s true. OK. Amazing. Then what do you do in your free time?

Mesut: I like sports, especially football. I mean, when I say football, it’s soccer. In my country, it is a very popular sport. When I say football, I mean soccer. Because sometimes when you say football, people think about American football, which is a different thing 😊.

Ryoko: Yes.

Mesut: Yeah, and I like watching games.

I try to watch my favorite teams’ games and I like playing too. We have a football group in Indeed, so sometimes we play at Yoyogi Park.

Ryoko: OK.

Mesut: Yeah, we have games almost weekly or biweekly. I like jogging; I have two dogs, and sometimes I go jogging with them. I also like traveling inside Japan and to other countries. I really like visiting new places and taking photographs.

Ryoko: Oh, nice. Which was your favorite place outside of Tokyo that you visited in Japan?

Mesut: In Japan, I really like Okinawa. That was very good.

Ryoko: Oh yeah.

Mesut: The last time I visited Okinawa was during the Golden Week. It was the very beginning of Golden Week, so it was not crowded at all. Like,  I went to a beach, and it was almost reserved for me. There was almost no one else 😊.

It was super cool, and the weather was very good. The food was very good, so I liked it. But in Japan, there are so many places you can visit, and Nara is one of them. Kyoto is also good. Then Hokkaido is a different thing, it’s so cold. Especially if you go in winter time, you can see the snow festival.

Ryoko: Yeah. Oh yeah, that’s true.

Mesut: And then there is a special kind of Yakiniku. What was the name? Genghis Khan?

Ryoko: Yes, Genghis Khan.

Mesut: Yeah, I really like that one. So the food, in general, in Hokkaido is really good. So, there are two places I can name.

Ryoko: Great. Nice. Then I think from me that was my last question, but do you have anything that you wish to share?

Mesut: I guess some people will watch this, right? Especially for people who may be looking for opportunities to settle in Japan. So, though we roughly discussed this, I would advise really studying Japanese because it would be a huge plus for talking to people or finding jobs. Though sometimes it’s not needed, just in case, it would always be an advantage.

Other than that, I would recommend doing some investigation and having an idea about how it will go because sometimes assumptions are made, but they don’t match 100%.

Ryoko: Yeah, that’s great. Well, thank you for this advice and for sharing your experience here. I wish you the best of luck in the future, too. Thank you so much.

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